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BFL lied to customers, I may as well share how they flat out lied to us as well
might as well post these emails since shit's hitting the fan
Hi [killhamster], Thanks for your patience. It looks like the site issues are mostly fixed. My name is Jeff Scott and I bought Buttcoin.org because I believe there is space for an Onion type parody site in the Bitcoin world. But let me be clear - I like Bitcoin. I believe in it. I also know many of the companies who operate in Bitcoin. Some of the owners of these companies are friends of mine. And thankfully, many of them have a sense of humor and understand parody. In order for Buttcoin.org to survive, it needs to generate revenue. In order to generate revenue, you need to attract advertising from the people who are making money in Bitcoin. My job is to sell this "parody" business model to them and convince them that we can do our parody in a way that will make fun of them and Bitcoin but won't hurt their businesses. If we can walk that fine line, we can generate revenue and still remain cutting edge and humorous. While I don't necessarily agree with whitewashing bad news, I think stories can be told in a way to take digs at companies and products without harming their reputation too much. The article about Butterfly Labs at the top of your popular stories is a good example. Do you know how much money Butterfly Labs has made in this industry? It's quite a bit. And they advertise a lot. That customer alone would pay for our expense (and more) per month. But they would never advertise with us in the current state. The bottom line is this - Buttcoin.org will not be forum troll bait any more. Bitcoin is bigger than Bitcointalk and Reddit. We're in new territory. If we want to capture revenue, we need to build this site into something new. We have to change the way we write stories. One of the first things we need to do is clean up some of these older articles. The Butterfly Labs article is an example because it's a top story. I took a stab at making the post positive for now until we can figure out our "new voice." I need to start attracting advertisers. I would like you to rewrite the Butterfly Labs stories so they are not forum troll slams, but parody. Here's an example of a headline that would take a dig at the company and Bitcoin but maybe give them a little boost. Current headline: The Butterfly Labs Mini-rig is a huge broken unstable piece of shit. (it has been proven that while you might not get rich with one, the product is not that bad) Possible new headline: Butterfly Labs Mini-rigs Mine Detroit Out Of Bankruptcy. "The Detriot city council finally took delivery of 2 Mini-rigs from Butterfly Labs..." This is just an example I thought off the top of my head. It takes a dig at Bitcoin, the fact that the Mini-rig will not make anyone rich, but at the same time doesn't offend a possible advertiser. So, this is the direction I want to go. There is a place and budget for a writer who can help make this happen. If you think it's you, please let me know and we can work on moving forward. If you cannot accept this new direction, we will have to part ways right now. Thanks
A second, clarifying email
I don't necessarily want to tone down the site. I just want advertisers. I understand your feelings about Butterfly Labs. I know the industry quite well. Avalon had issues, KnC had boards explode in the wild and I don't see any articles nailing them for shipping less than perfect products. Every single hardware manufacturer has missed their target dates for delivery. It's not just BFL. BFL did just ship out 45,000 bitcoin miners which is a pretty big task for a company that started 2 years ago and I know they are replacing units that are not functioning. But this is not the point. They pay another site (I know the owner) $1000 a month to run banners. I can make a deal with them overnight. This doesn't mean I am tying myself to them. It means I am taking their money. I'm not sure how much [FCKGW] was paying you to write, but I think he mentioned a % of revenue and adsense couldn't be making that much. Let's make fun of Bitcoin and Bitcoin Mining, but try to stay brand neutral. Let me know if you're interested.
after we caught them saying the BFL minirig is a big sexy mining machine
The BFL stuff is temporary. I want to rewrite them later. If you want to change the author on them for now that's fine. I'll do that. I'm working on a deal for ad space with them. It's an olive branch. Sorry slammed today. Will answer the rest soon. Thanks
after these it was mostly me saying "hey the site is down check it out" and him saying "OK"
Hey guys, Not sure if you are aware, but Josh from BFL labs has advised units to begin shipping end of april. (Hopefully) https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status-3.html There have been further annoucements and talk in the shoutbox regarding this.. information seems to be all over the place. so this is what I know so far: 18/04/13: At this stage they are in the final stage of testing and fine tuning the power consumption ( predictions showed it to be in the range of 1GH/J but its now looking closer to 170MH/J ) This will also likely improve over time but is still miles ahead of Avalon and GPU miners. Minirig is no longer available for purchase as they cannot fit it in the case that it was intended for so after the Single SC is finished they will look into the minirig again, But the minirig is composed of Single SC's that are running on a higher clock due to more optimised cooling. The chips are FINE. The delay is re-engeneering the power system on the boards to handle to extra consumption. IMHO I think they will start the shipping process on end of april, They will start with the Jalapeno's and work their way up. Still no ETA for minirig though.. You may have heard about the tour on reddit http://www.reddit.com/Bitcoin/comments/1c3hyc/toured_butterflylabs_a_few_hours_ago/ This was confirmed by Josh but he also made a valid point, "Why would we pay staff to stand around watching" Once the shipping process begins they expect to ship 400 units per day. I would say the first week would be 200 units per day average while they sort out all the kinks. But I have high hopes. UPDATE: Photos of Mini-Rig: http://imgur.com/a/Uanjr#0 Please note these may be an older model, But give you a better idea of how a slightly larger PCB will affect the production.. If you have ordered from BFL Labs, Please fill in your details here so we can publicly track how many have been delivered etc. UPDATE 2: Found this on BFL website. BFL will make 400 units/day. 2,000 units/week. 8,000 units/month. That means: ->4 months = 32,000 units ->5 months = 40,000 units ->6 months = 48,000 units UPDATE 3: There are many photos and some misc information on BFL and the ASIC miners below. Forum registration is required for some photos. https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/1099-orders-shipping-pictures-facility-when-my-stuff-here-why-delays-shipping.html UPDATE 4 (2/5): There is a BFL update email going out now, so check your inbox. Also, Josh has been posting stuff in the last 12 hours, so I'll be sending out some quotes shortly. BFL_Josh on order confirmation: I'd wait awhile before trying. It's not like we're going to cancle your order today. You got 10 days or so... BFL_Josh - Yeah Product server is dying. We are doing this so that we can be sure everyone understands that the power usage is more than we planned. We don't want to get into a situation where we ship something out that someone isn't expecting. BFL_Josh - Product server is overloaded. Wait awhile to confirm your orders. No orders are in imminent danger of being refunded without approval. Clicking accept does not change your place in the order queue. BFL_Sabina - When the website is back up, please log in to the website and proceed with the confirmation process there. Confirmation by email is not accepted. If you check the products page you will see the Single SC is much larger than originally intended and this confirms what I was saying earlier about the larger PCB. Will update when I hear further.. I would say they are staggering the emails as their website is overloaded and I don't have an email personally yet.. however this is all in the last 2 hours.. so we shall just have to wait and see... Check back here for more updates. I will update as soon as it is available. Find the information helpfull? Tips are appreciated :)
The $22,484.00 Butterfly Labs Mini Rig bitcoin miner is a huge, broken, unstable piece of shit.
(This was a rather controversial article posted on Buttcoin.org and became quite popular, even moving to the top of /bitcoin. It's since been mysteriously edited on the site [maybe by g-g-g-ghosts!] so it's being reposted here for posterity's sake. Some numbers may be off by now, but it was all accurate at the time of posting.) Butterfly Labs has a long and horrible history with their mining rigs. They started taking pre-orders over a year ago, with a ship time sometime in late July. After numerous delays in production, shipping problems and general incompetence, the only thing they’ve managed to get out the door are some of their tiniest miners, the Jalapenos. And those mainly ended up in the hands of reviewers and blogs in order to keep pumping the Butterfly Labs hype train and securing millions of dollars of pre-orders still in limbo.Lucky BFL forums user Luke-JR however scored a sweet Mini Rig from Butterfly Labs (it’s just a coincidence he’s a driver developer for them I’m sure). This rig was originally promised to produce 1500 GH/s hashing power at 1500 watts for $30,000, but has since seen it’s hashing power slashed to a third of what was promised and it’s power consumption increased 75%, now just offer 500 GH/s at 2400 watts. They’ve promised to make good on pre-order buy sending out 3 rigs to match the initial hashing rate, so now it’s only 1500 GH/s at 6900 watts, a reduction in GH/Watt by a factor of 5. So what does $22,484 buy you? Take a look!
Minirig is here! Today, my Minirig arrived. http://i.imgur.com/Yp0WPvE.jpg FedEx apparently dropped it somewhere along the way, and the weakest part of the case, the thin metal part around the back of the PSU, broke. http://i.imgur.com/lFcOHxP.jpg I’m not sure how sturdy the back side was supposed to be, but its two pieces aren’t quite together either. http://i.imgur.com/AVttcOt.jpg The power supplies (EVGA 1500W) also created havoc interfering with the neutral on the power line. This disrupted X10 communication significantly enough that the pool overflowed because the system controlling it was unable to turn off the pump. Workaround: This PSU supports 240V, so we rewired the outlet. 240V does not use neutral, so now all should be okay. Edit: 240V workaround is only partial. Still having problems But the good news is, it all seems to be working for the most part. Next up, installing it in the window so the heat goes outside
A twenty two thousand dollar box of electronics that is broken out of the box, that required the guy to do a sketchy electrical workaround to get partially working, that he is going to install in a window… and he’s happy about it? In case you didn’t notice it, the delivered unit is different than the picture on the website. They had to install 2 power supplies instead of 1 and had to modify the case to fit. Also, if you didn’t notice, the LCD/Phone thingy in the front has been replaced by … a piece of cardboard spray painted black. Wonderful. You could maybe chalk this up to a careless Fedex postman, but when you’re shipping something that costs as much as a mid-sized sedan, how bought putting a little more effort into packing? Dell and HP can ship bigger and heavier servers across the world without this kind of problem. The unit had to hit its huge power draw increase by putting dual EVGA consumer grade power supplies in the unit. We’re talking almost a 75 amp load (6*1500/120), disregarding power factor. He could very well overload the circuit panel and trip the main breaker for the house. Let’s take a look inside this guy. This is from an earlier version of the Minirig (note the single power supply) This is apparently from an earlier FPGA but it will give you a good glimpse at what kind of craftsmanship you can expect from a computer that is half the average household income in the United States. Consumer grade PSU and cheap USB hubs glued to the inside case. Electrical tape and random velcro glued to the insides A closer look at the USB hubs. Plugs are hot glued to stay secured. Electrical tape everywhere, splices and voided hardware are the theme. You can view the entire album here. Despite all that, this thing can still mine bitcoins and it should be profitable. Keep in ind that many people jumped in on the preorders a year ago when bitcoins were still hovering around $6.50 per. Meaning customers paid 1562 bitcoins for that particular piece of shit, which at today’s value is $156,200. Aston martin money. How long will it take them to make their money back (as apposed to just hanging on to them)? If the difficulty didn’t change, they would make 37 bitcoins a day and recoup the initial investment in 124 days. Difficulty is jumping pretty much 20% every 12 days or so, so in the next week before adjustment, they’ll make 259, the next 12 days 369, the next 12 days 312, then 256, then 213, etc. So by day 127, they’ll be halfway to breaking even, but by day 151 they’ll be making less than 5 bitcoins a day, and even if difficulty stopped rising at that point(which it won’t), it would take another 435 days for a total of 586 days to break even. If difficulty kept rising at the same pace, by day 200 they’d be making 2.4 bitcoins per day, and it would take 1024 days to break even with no difficulty increase. Assuming 25 cents per kw/h, and $100 a bitcoin, it would cost 0.43 of a bitcoin per day in electricity which means the unit would no longer be profitable on a power usage basis by day 307, at which point it will have produced 2620 bitcoins. Bear in mind this is only for the first few units, and that’s running 24/7 pumping out around 24,000 BTU, so yes, medical bills from heat stroke will be on top of that. But Alas, the chips don’t run nearly as well as they’re supposed to, frequently running too hot and giving multiple hardware failures. Coindesk noted in one of the first ever runs of the Minirig by hosting provide gigavps that it was running much too hot and erroring out.
At the time of posting, gigavps warned that the unit would be repeatedly shut down while ckolivas, who was assisting, modified the machine’s software to optimise performance. After some tweaking, the device was said to have been left to run continuously for two hours, and was shown to have an average hash rate of 478.1 GH/s. As you can see in the table below, ASIC number four (of a total of eight hashing chips) ran significantly hotter (86 degrees) and consequently gave the highest hardware (HW) error rate. http://i.imgur.com/q3iGrnb.jpg
So, what happens if you just decide you don’t want this, you don’t want to wait over a year to get a $22,000 broken piece of shit? Nothing, because BFL won’t let you cancel your preorder because they’re now “shipping”, i.e. they sent out one unit to their own company shill. http://i.imgur.com/0p3Up03.jpg Which is of course illegal regardless of what Butterfly Labs may say. So in summary: Don’t buy anything from Butterfly Labs … ever.
02-25 13:03 - 'There are so many problems with a PoW change it's not even funny. / 1. Who gets to decide the new PoW? / 2. How do we ever trust the chosen PoW? / 3. If it's ASIC immune how do we trust that no one doesn't have a advantage in...' by /u/Agrroz removed from /r/Bitcoin within 161-171min
''' There are so many problems with a PoW change it's not even funny.
Who gets to decide the new PoW?
How do we ever trust the chosen PoW?
If it's ASIC immune how do we trust that no one doesn't have a advantage in optimized/exploitative gpu mining software?
If it's not ASIC immune but friendly/resistant how do we trust that the chosen PoW has not had hardware developed behind the scenes or is broken in some way?
Short of spinning the wheel and picking PoW at random on the day of the fork, how could you ever trust anyone's opinions/suggestions for the choice of PoW.
These arguments of PoW changes are so retarded I can't even get my head around them. Especially suggesting to switch to another ASIC friendly PoW algo. You just end up with the same hurdles and bar of entry. No matter what you do it will still cost 10s of millions to create a ASIC on leading edge node, whoever does it first will be the new Bitmain (do we then start over again?). They want Bitmain's dominance to go away, they should find investors and start a better mining manufacturer. Bitmain would have no troubles dominating any new ASIC friendly algo (So what was the point of switching then?). The irony with Bitmain being the dominant manufacturer is that they were the "good guys", one of the main reasons why some of the previous mining manufactuers went bust is that they let themselves be ruled by greed. There was a time when Bitmain was almost the sole manufacture to sell their hardware to "normal" people. Where is KNC today? They had first mover advantage over Bitmain, they could have been Bitmain. Instead they choose to fill their warehouses with their miners and declared bankruptcy when "unfair Chinese electricity prices" made them unprofitable during the 2014-2015 bear market. Bitfury could also have been Bitmain, but they went a similar route and refused to sell hardware. They tried to be gold miners and forgot they were supposed to sell shovels to people who are bad at basic math, Bitmain has always been very good at estimating just how far they can push their pricing on miners. Edit: I almost forgot, I suggest Bitmain to send some hardware to luke for "testing" like the much more reputable US based BFL did (hurhurdurh). [link]1 Maybe then they can get on his good side, oh ye and didn't Luke also get one of the very first "minirigs" that were built by BFL? Way ahead of other people early in the queue (could be remembering wrong) ''' Context Link Go1dfish undelete link unreddit undelete link Author: Agrroz 1: m*nef*reman.*om/20*3/*4/*2/luk*-jr-**ows-of***he-fi*st-*utterly-*abs*a*ic-b*tco*n**i*e Unknown links are censored to prevent spreading illicit content.
02-25 12:53 - 'And yet they weren't the first, KNC could have made enough money from selling their entire 28nm production to beat Bitmain before they got off the ground. / Instead KNC (and Bitfury) were betting on making more money long term fr...' by /u/Agrroz removed from /r/Bitcoin within 4-14min
''' And yet they weren't the first, KNC could have made enough money from selling their entire 28nm production to beat Bitmain before they got off the ground. Instead KNC (and Bitfury) were betting on making more money long term from mining themselves. KNC also had a horribly inefficient/expensive product (comparatively), however that was a trade off to have fast time to market. KNC used a large monolithic die and used very expensive components for their VRMs, Bitmain simply beat them with a better design (and we want them to be punished for it?) I have zero sympathies for the mining companies that are struggling/are out of business. Most of them fucked over customers in one way or another, many of them worse than Bitmain ever did. "But they are Chinese" some people will say, well tell that to all the people who got fucked over by Butterflylabs, I bet it will make them feel a lot better. Ah ye who was it that got early miners from BFL now again? [link]1 I guess Bitmain has not sent enough hardware to Luke for "testing" to be on his good side. He also got one of the very first "minirigs" delivered, he might actually have paid for that one however (my memory is fuzzy). No question he jumped the queue however. ''' Context Link Go1dfish undelete link unreddit undelete link Author: Agrroz 1: mi*ef*re*an.com/20**/*4/0*/l*k*-j**s*ow*-off-the-f*rst-but*e**y-*a*s-asic-bitc*i*-mine*/ Unknown links are censored to prevent spreading illicit content.
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status-3.html 22 May 2013 Progress has not stopped here at the labs while we attended the 2013 Bitcoin Conference. We demonstrated a 5 GH/s, a 25 GH/s and a 50 GH/s miner at the conference that people could see, touch, stroke and pet, all while they were mining on an Android tablet. It was a good conference and we were glad that we could demonstrate working units and meet many of our customers and fellow bitcoiners. It was a pleasure meeting many of you. We have resolved the issues with the long boards and are making some tweaks to the 5 GH/s boards that may reduce power consumption but will almost certainly reduce heat output. With that in mind, we should be getting about 200 5 GH/s boards on Friday, and we'll be shipping those out on Friday and Saturday. As a term/jargon/technical note, here is the informal and/or official designations here at BFL: Short Board = ~92mm x 92mm board that contains up to 8 chips and powers the 5 GH/s miner, typically with just 1 or 2 chips. Long Board = The board that powers the Little Single, Single and Minirig and can contain up to 16 chips in two banks of 8. Jalapeno is now called the 5 GH/s miner and is synonymous. The Minirig is now a 500 GH/s unit. Our chips consume about 3 - 3.5w per GH/s at the chip level, so there is some room for tweaking, which we will be focusing on as soon as we get the final rev out for the Long Boards. Speaking of Long Boards, we have what we are considering the last rev for shipment coming next Monday or Tuesday the 27th or 28th of May (they may even be done with manufacturing this Saturday the 25th) and we will continue to refine the firmware for that board until the final rev arrives in KC. Assuming no problems with it, we will be being shipment shortly thereafter. The long boards will be powered by one or two PCIe style 6 pin Minifit Jr connectors. Please be aware that these connectors, while using the same form factor as PCIe connectors are not PCIe connectors, though they are electrically compatible with them (Meaning you can likely use an ATX PSU at your own discretion if you chose not to use our supplied power bricks). The Little Single and Single will have a 120mm fan at each end of the case in a push/pull configuration. Each bank of 8 chips will have a heatsink, heat baffle and 92mm fan on top of it. Cooling will not be an issue with these units and they will be fairly quiet to run if you are in a cool environment. The fan will scale up and down in speed as required due to heat. The units will be stackable and have a side to side or front to back airflow, depending on how you orient them. We are expecting several thousand chips next week from our new packaging facility and expect to start shipping all product lines next week. Beyond that, we will be receiving thousands of chips per week at an ever increasing pace between now and until all of the remaining 68 wafers are used up. We have additional wafers on order and they should be ready about the time we've used up all 68 wafers should we need them. Soon after, we hope to have product on the shelf for immediate shipment, depending on how many orders come in between now and when we catch up the backlog.
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